2022 Ryan & Dr K

Dr. Kyle passionately serves the Michigan community at the Michigan Family Wellness clinic where he specializes in pregnancy, pediatrics, and family wellness care.

Dr. Kyle Wallner
Michigan Family Wellness

Dr. Kyle passionately serves the Michigan community at the Michigan Family Wellness clinic where he specializes in pregnancy, pediatrics, and family wellness care.

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[0:00] Music.

[1:10] Lifestyle so if you're looking for efficient, effective, and sustainable ways to elevate your health and the health of your.

[1:16] Music.

[1:22] For you today. Hey, guys. What's going on? Welcome to the Michigan family wellness podcast live from Michigan Family Wellness Club.

[1:29] Today we're talking with doctor a physical therapy Ryan Tisdale thanks so much Ryan for coming on the podcast no thanks for having me excited to be here Kyle.
Really shouldn't shout outside like we were saying yes should we got a lot of lights and cameras set up the exactly.
Well hey tell us a little bit more about kinesis and your background as a doc of physical therapy yes so Canesis PT and performance.
As a unique place because we get to work one on one with our patients for the entire hour of the session. We really focus on.

[2:05] The running community in particular and trying to correct.
They're running mechanics, how they move, and just allow them to be able to run pain free. A lot of times,
In physical therapy I think people get caught up in the fine details and they have a hard time.
Seeing the entire picture. You know, the the saying, what is it? You can't see the forest through the trees or something along those lines but they'll get hung up at looking at at a ankle joint or a knee or a hip,
Instead of looking at the runner as a whole movement system,
And specifically how they run so I can use this that's what we get to do we take a look at the entire movement system how runners move and especially how do they run and how is that interacting with.
What symptoms they may be presenting with.

[2:54] Brilliant I can't wait to get more into the meat and potatoes of that conversation just brief contacts for our listeners here as well.

[3:02] We had met through the Plymouth Canton Wellness Coalition which I highly recommend to people out there. If you're if you're a provider, if you're a wellness practitioner, if you're.
A body worker, physical therapist, chiropractor, whoever.
Big plug for the Plymouth Can't Wellness Coalition if you're in the Novi area where Kinesis and Ryan and his.
Kaleen are or if you're in Plymouth, Canton.

[3:35] And yeah, let's go ahead and do what Ryan briefly. I will say, you know, a lot of people know us as just a family wellness practice but yeah, you know,
Mothers, fathers, your everyday adult is dabbling with running, getting into running, doing, half marathons, doing marathons, so we do see a lot of runners.
That's not like a backbone or AA foundation of our practice if you will but I do love working with runners and helping people out you know,
Running more efficiently, running more effectively, and just using the the spinal chiropractic adjustment as a.
Collaborative therapy with a lot of what you're doing with a lot of what Kayleen's doing over there at kinesis,
To help people run more pain free, more efficient, and more effective. So, absolutely. Well, I think you hit the nail in the head. It is something that's so many people do because it's accessible and it's a great form to exercise. Yeah. I mean,
There's not really a huge barrier to entry in terms of cost.
Really if you can find some tennis shoes or if you prescribed to the barefoot running philosophy you don't even necessarily need shoes to to get in so sure we see so many different Americans kinda jump into running for that reason.

[4:45] Yeah so there's so many different ways to get into this conversation with you here let's just let's just dovetail off that tell us more about you know.
What you see people do in terms of getting into running, you know, common mistakes. We we talk about importance of movement quality in life. Yeah.
Everything and anything there. Yeah, I'd, well, I think, I think that's it right there. Unfortunately, I.

[5:08] I see most people when they get into running they don't really take an approach they just kinda wake up and go you know I I think I'm gonna take up running today I'm gonna go buy,
Some good shoes and those good shoes by themselves are gonna prevent injury cuz that's what the the running shoe store say and that's that's not to say that shoes aren't important they are.
But that's also kind of a,
You're a dust jockey who works at a dust for 40 to 50 hours a week and you haven't been doing anything and you're just gonna go out and pound the pavement for five, three mi, seven mi, whatever,
There's definitely good programs you can follow out there. Some people do the couch to five K but even doing those programs. I don't necessarily address,
The actual actually underlying movement or technique of running so I always encourage people to start off with.
Looking into either post method is what we use pretty commonly. I can use this. We're also familiar with Chi,
I know that's something you didn't mention Doctor Kyle as a method or a methodology and a technique to running because it's absolutely a skill and if you are not a skilled runner.

[6:23] Typically end up seeing people like ourselves and having similar conversations. So, yeah,
Without me talking more about pose do you wanna kinda talk about Chi running a little bit and the the basics because what I understand there's there's a lot of overlaps okay.
Yeah and I would say I'm less familiar with Pose. But to your point,
I'm vaguely familiar with she running in the sense that they really prescribe or they really recommend trying to get people to run,
Efficiently and effective you know these trims like running economy which I think we'll talk about a little bit later it's it's this whole idea of trying to run pain free so.

[7:03] I hear a lot of people talk about how running,
Is often just a series of one-legged stances just in succession and you're kinda just leaning forward there from your ankles and you're trying to have gravity pull you forward and really leverage the force of gravity to your advantage,
So you're not trying to have to work so hard to run aerobicly.
And just use a ton of energy and make it more of like an anaerobic type thing and just bleed it just you know waste energy everywhere which can also prevent a lot of injuries as well,
You know I'm sure I'll talk about about the ground reactive forces but it's like man if we're always if every step that we take has way too high of an impact.
On our kinematic chain.
Love that name that are by the way with your with your practice. Thank you. We're going to have injury. We're gonna have breakdown. Wherever that breakdown happens to be in the kinematic chain whether it's the angle, knee, hips, spine, pelvis, you name it.

[8:01] And so I think she running you know Danny Dryer is this the author and kinda creator of that. Been around for a long time. I think he's got a lot of really good methodology and techniques especially for learning how to run
Slowly. Yeah, that whole that whole adager thinking of like, okay, your crawl before you walk, you walk before you run,
I think Danny does a good job. It really distilling it down. Making it super simple,
And almost starting with walking like you know let's try and have you been efficient walker,
And really focus on getting your cross crawl reflexes going well,
Using your arms when you run. You know, I I I laugh with that thought because right now, my daughter, I'll watch her run and she's like all legs. I'm trying to get her to use her arms more,
To actually run more biomechanically sound. Yeah. And so she's working on it but it's it's it's a work in progress there.

[8:56] Even with that, if someone's having a difficulty, you know, whether they're just a beginner or whether they're having low back pain like we're talking about here today,
Or whether they're even a seasoned athlete and they're really into the high endurance, the long distances, halves, falls, even the ultrasounds or even the ironman triathletes type stuff.

[9:16] You know, you can really benefit a lot from slowing things down, running,
Really slow really well or even walking really well and then translating that into or scaling that if you wanna use more of a business term scaling that into more of that 180 cadence you know steps per minute stuff like that.
So yeah did you wanna talk more about pose then or kinda some overlaps with that? Oh yeah absolutely I I think you mentioned.

[9:42] Building off that and having a foundation especially even even a higher level athletes let's say you're somebody who is a seasoned runner.
But you're looking to improve your performance or decrease the rate of injuries or risk of injuries.
Looking into and applying these different methodologies can be a great way to do that and like you said with Chi.
Post talks about the same ideas in terms of the correct running posture so making sure we have the correct alignment,
Through our hips, our shoulders, our spine, our pelvis is in the right position. I'm making sure I contact with the ground is underneath of us,
So that we're not actually losing Connecticut energy on every step or actually using gravity to our advantage leveraging gravity. So that the elastic properties of your ankle, foot, your lower leg,
As they contact the ground can actually propel us forwards instead of have us fall backwards when our foot lands out in front of us if you've heard the term overstride.

[10:40] That's where we get those increased ground reactions forces coming back up the chain that's where you start to see too much pressure getting put on the ankle foot the knees is specifically I see that a lot in our clinic and it can translate all the way up to the low back.
Doctor Kyle talked about the running cadence so that 180 steps per minute and being skilled at running slow.
It's something post talks about. If you're running under that 180.
You're gonna be in what we call an overstride, right? Again, overstride meaning you're hitting out in front of your center of gravity and your good basically gonna be fighting gravity on every step of your running
Stride. So, both she imposed, they prescribe or promote that higher cadence cheese like 170 to 180 poses saying 180 plus. So,
I always say when you hear different people saying similar things that something to take note of so again.

[11:34] Learning how to maximize your running posture alignment. How to utilize gravity to your advantage. Meaning, your foot contact with the ground.
And also how to utilize the elastic principles or elastic properties rather,
Essential to running efficiently and running safely.
Like we said, there's a reason why it's an Olympic sport, right? It takes a high degree of skill. Yeah. And technique.

[12:08] Music.

[12:43] So we kinda.
Dance around the topic of injuries and specifically we're we're talking about low back pain and how it relates to runners today. Do you mind kinda.

[12:54] Diving in and saying what you see with some of your people that come in here they're runners what are some of the common.
Deficiencies or impyments you see amongst them. Excellent question. So, it's very basic for my practice again. Just working with your everyday adult population,
People who are just trying to get outside if it's nice out and just trying to put some some miles under their feet,
Like you had mentioned earlier Ryan often times there is a selection of footwear that's not the best for them,
They're overstriding. They're they're cadence or their steps per minute or however you wanna think of it steps per second is not quite right.
And they're leaning or they're they're kinematics. They're biomechanics are not quite right either and so,
Something I love about how we're designed as the you know human body and created,
Is such that our foot and the position of our head everything from the foot to the head everything in between is really,
This very easy and efficient pasture of running or like I said earlier that series of one leg it stances so.

[14:06] Learning how to do this properly and right you know taking someone that does have low back pain it's really almost deconstructing and going back to those simple basics,
And then from there building upon that identifying
Misalignments identifying structural tension identifying maybe it's a cue that they need you know a sensory cue more of a mental cue or coaching queue that can really just be all the difference in the world
For helping their running to be more effective. I know we were talking about,
Let's just take the pelvis for example you know I almost feel hypocritical here we're sitting you know we're in that flexed hip position here yeah but man having having those soas muscles.
Langsend and released can make such a difference if someone's got that anterior tilt pasture with their pelvis here. Let's see if I can just.

[14:54] Demonstrate that a little bit here on the spine without knocking it over. So, yeah, you know, if they've got a pelvis with some really tight hip flexors here coming off. Again, that's the front of the lumbar spine. Now, not a lot of people.
Think about that,
You know, they think, ah, doc, it hurts back here, you know, why, why are we doing stuff up here? Right. So, I try to help people understand. You've got these huge two big cables, the psoas, the ilio, so as, even the iliacus here coming off of the.

[15:22] The ball of the Illiham and just simple I'm not even talking about chiropractic adjustments yet just simple muscle work.
Can make such a huge difference because again, the goal with running is to have hip extension. If you don't have hip extension,
Then you're not going anywhere. Right. Right. So, it's like, yeah, you can have these awesome glutes. You know, you can do,
Great glute exercises and and and hip exercises for the glutes and everything. Nothing against that but man, if if those hip flexors, if that ilia psoas is just too tight,
That is gonna bring that pelvis forward and that is gonna make a more challenging context for you to run longer distances for sure.
With that you know I think another thing I hear about Ryan is especially living in Michigan.

[16:05] Will have lots of months of the year where it's just cold and it's just hard to run outside so people go to the gym and they get on their treadmill
Right. And they just kinda pound the treadmill for quite quite a while.

[16:27] So if you're gonna do something like a 1000 times.
You wanna make sure you can you can do it properly if you're gonna add that kind of volume, right? Absolutely. You know, or even like with strength training, you know, if you're working on your bench press or if you're working on your deadlift, it's like, can you do one really good.
Before you start doing five sets of five. Now, and then more than that,
Like we talked about earlier slowly but I would even say this just came to my mind as I was thinking about the treadmill idea which I think we'll talk a little bit more about tools and techniques later but.

[17:03] The the whole idea of if you can and and nothing else.
Against the treadmill. Treadmill is fine. But if you can slightly angle that treadmill up.
Like on a one or a two incline depending on your preference. I'm not talking like a seven, right? Sure. Just a slight incline there,
That can and this is more of a flat just standard treadmill. That can really help you keep your foot strike.
When you talk about the ground reactive forces more so on that midfoot or forefoot and really keep you off your heels,
Regardless of what shoe you're wearing. I do recommend more of a minimalist shoe. If people like the vibrants in the five fingers, I'm sure you're with me on this as well. You just you gotta acclimate properly to those kinds of footwear,
But I would definitely endorse.

[17:54] The shoe community out there. I know oh shoes are really well,
So, you know, just drop a few brand names, new balance, has a lot of good stuff,
Rooks is really good pokers are excellent the other thing too
That comes to mind. I know I'm going just tangents here. A tangent on tangents. These phones, these days are incredible. We are talking about that earlier and they have the slow motion mode. So, even if you
You can get a buddy or if you have a small tripod or just lean it up against the coffee mug or something put your phone down on your driveway or your treadmill or whatever.
Do a slow motion video of your running gate and then
Watch that back look at yourself in the same way that a golfer would you know record their swim. Yeah. So yeah I think there's just tremendous benefit that can come from utilizing your phone. That's slow motion feature. Yeah. To just see like okay you know am I really
You know slamming my heel in the ground,
How was my cadence? You know, how did my muscles look as I'm running? Can I actually see tightness or can I see that into your pelvis itself? Absolutely. I'm sure you recommend people do that. Absolutely. That's actually one of the things
We do with every runner that comes into our clinic we do a running gate in our.

[19:02] And that's exactly what we look like. We do frontal plane. Meaning,
We watch them from behind to see if we see any pelvic drop or abduction internal rotation on the,
Femur meaning the knees kinda diving in towards each other much pronation do we see happening at the foot,
Pronation gets demonized I think by a lot of people it's fine if it's controlled it becomes a problem if we get stuck in this point of pronation we don't resupinate through the gate cycle yeah and it drives,
The kinematic shame with it,
Sure. So, yeah, this was supposed to take a fine pronation. Yeah, so for for those of you who aren't familiar with pronation and supination or even if I'm looking at the foot right here, just to get you oriented, this is a right foot,
This is our tibia so our shin bone here's our heel,
So as somebody strikes the ground in a normal walking gate it should be with the calcanias first as they roll through which starts to happen is pronation through the midfoot so you'll see these tarsal bones start to go down towards the ground.

[20:02] As they're going to tow off there's this beautiful thing called the metatarsal break here as you roll through your toes that causes the foot to start to resupinate creating a red rigid lever to push off of.
In running because we shouldn't really be hitting with our heel out in front of us as we talked about before,
We're not actually harnessing the elastic properties of our muscular tendonous junctions. We're losing all the energy that gravity could be giving us when we do that.
We should be landing in more of a midfoot or 4 foot strike assuming that is underneath our center of gravity underneath our hips.
So you'll see people do is they'll start to pronate but if they pronate so much.
That the tibia and the fibula gets stuck in a state of internal rotation.

[20:49] Meaning your knee starts to get oriented in words your femur your thigh bone starts to turn in,
The pelvis can also drop and as as somebody who looks at runners quite frequently that is a very common cause of a
Host of origins. I have adopted a saying from one of my professors in PT school. The tissue is not the issue. So, as you describe with the low back, somebody comes in with low back pain,
But really the issues upfront with the psoas muscles the tissue being the little back.

[21:20] Being irritated, the facet joints are perhaps the nerve roots, whatever is going on back there.
We have to address what is actually causing that irritation. So, that's something in runners we see and like I said, we we take a look at running mechanics and gate.
If you don't mind I wanna I wanna back up cuz I lovely said about the treadmill in terms of putting out a incline cuz that's something we recommend,
And I think a lot of runners if they do it they don't necessarily know why or understand why and I like that you touched on it helps with the correct contact of your foot.
Try heel striking while you run up ahead,
The difference in between a treadmill and running flat ground outside,
Is the belts moving? All I gotta do is pick my feet up to to keep up with that. Right. Versus outside. We have to create some of that forward momentum.
Through an interaction with gravity and so we talk about power output and aerobic aerobic all this other stuff but a lot of times kinesiologists of all types of their chiropractors, PTs, strength conditioning coaches, you name it.
We disregard the facts we live and move and a gravitational field and even though a treadmills are are great way to keep running through the winter.
It is artificial because we get to almost create that movement.

[22:44] Out having to fall in to grab your to utilize gravity for that forward propulsion.
So doing something by inclining the treadmill like you said 123, degrees, nothing very high.

[22:57] That minimal the incline can help runners actually start to lean into the treadmill a little bit more similar to what you'd wanna be doing when you're outside running off the treadmill.

[23:07] Music.

[23:42] That section there Ryan was excellent I think.
Just so much in there that even I wanna go back and like watch that you know the way you're moving the foot there was just really cool one thing that comes to mind to help people get an idea of how that,
How that lean feels what I've heard of before and I believe this comes from Dr. Mark Cucasella who we actually interviewed on the Michigan family wellness podcast here. So, if you scroll back through the.

[24:08] Podcast catalog you can check out.
Doctor Mark Cucazella he's great friends with Danny Dryer and a lot of these post people yeah he's a guy out in Shepherdstown West Virginia has his own barefoot running store does the Air Force Marathon every year great doc great runner.
Fantastic barefoot runner. So, if you just want inspiration like visual visualization, help with,
Running properly with good form. Check out some of Dr. Mark's videos out there. Great content for yes.
But one thing he'll talk about is if you can just stand in front of a wall.
You're standing upright good posture I'm sure you do this with your patients too and maybe even just step back like half an inch or maybe an inch.
But what you're trying to do with this is you're trying to just lean forward from the angle so you know you're keeping your hips pretty much.
Inline and and steady but you're trying to lean forward from the ankle here,
So you get that little bit of ankle flexion and then you can almost like touch the wall with your hands or just like catch yourself that far because really that's all you need
In terms of that forward motion that you'll feel gravity start to pull you forward and then.

[25:29] Really, I mean, that's it. I mean, you can get a nice cadence just from that nice lane. And something that Doctor Mark will talk about and Danny Dryer,
Is in terms of okay like that is running in a nutshell now if you want if you wanna run faster all you do it it's like gears on your bicycle okay so if you wanna if you want a pedal faster,
Or if you wanna go faster on your bicycle, well, what do you do? Well, you go up a gear. You know, you increase the gear to to go faster.

[25:56] So with running they'll talk about how your forward lean metaphorically speaking is your gears on your bicycle,
So, if you wanna run faster, you just lean forward more. You keep everything else the same. Yeah, your stride might increase a little bit.

[26:13] You know, but starting with that shorter stride is gonna help you decrease those ground reaction reaction forces. Keep your,
Pelvis over your feet there but then yeah once you start to lean forward even more you're gonna increase that stride length you're just gonna run fast it's gonna feel effortless,
And I would say this from my own personal experience Ryan you might get to a point at least if you're like me at all,
It's like your legs are going so fast. You're feeling so good. And now your heart can't keep up
And you're like out of breath even though you feel you fork because you get that runners out of your life. Oh, this feels so good.
But now my lungs in my heart it's more of a cardiovascular cardio metabolic thing unless of a muscular skeletal thing. Yeah. I know that's another tangent but thoughts on that. No. Is that illicit? Yeah absolutely. That's actually the way he describes it in terms of a lean. That's,
Very similar to all we we teach our clients when they come in when we run some of our running
Technique courses. Yes. I always describe the people the iconic Michael Jackson smooth,
Criminal music video. So, if you're familiar with it,
You'll get what I'm saying but essentially Michael Jackson locks his shoes in on stage but you can't see that,
He does this crazy forward lane so he's got a straight line from his hips down to his ankles meaning it's just a straight line all the way through.

[27:37] And what was amazing about that? Cuz he defies gravity, right? And they pulls himself back up. Now, without those special shoes that locked into the stage, that wouldn't be possible.

[27:46] So I describe that to people so they can get an idea of what I'm talking about what that lean should look like and then I ask them to just very slowly,
Do that while they're standing in place. I don't put a wall in front of them cuz I want what I want them to feel is as they start to do that, they have to step out in front of themselves to essentially catch themselves,
So understand that gravity can actually take you forward without oh muscular effort of your own. It's just allowing yourself to go forward with that,
Fall or forwardly. That's something I think takes a high degree of skill.
Hence why you see athletes or Olympic sprinters at the highest level.

[28:24] They're very good at doing that. It takes a very high level of neuromuscular control and drive.
To be able to pick your feet up and put them down at the perfect time to be able to maintain that type of lane and for any of you that are fans of track and field,
I'm sure you've seen sprinters as they're crossing the line. Some people think it's a dive at the end but they're actually falling. They're falling forwards because they're leaning so hard or falling with such an aggressive angle,
Sometimes their feet can't catch up I've actually experienced that as a track athlete myself and it's so weird phenomenon to feel yourself all over the front of your feet on your belly but,
It happens when when you're running that way. So,
As I said before, when you hear multiple people and experts especially from different backgrounds, different approaches saying very similar things that's that's something to take note of and something both chi and post,
Having common and and very crucial to increasing performance but also reducing the risk of injury and and incidents of it. So,
We're supposed to be talking about back pain. I know we're going on tangents here. Why don't we circle back in? Trying to take that back into how does this relate to back pain? What do we see in runners with our back pain and what do we do that's to help them out.

[29:39] Yeah so we talked about hypertonic psoas muscles we talked about that ends here pelvic tilts we can talk about everything from you know again keeping in in theme with that musculoskeletal skeletal,
Your external hip rotators, your piriformis, all of your operators, not firing properly, so for everyone who may not know.
The piriformis and operators and external hip rotators are gonna be all on the back of the hip there.
So, tension, I mean, even this is where piriformis can come in, sciatica type presentations, which is can be involved with low back. You can have,
Everything from issues going on with the feet, you can have a subluxated foot, you can have, you know, tension in that mortis joint right here,
That's one thing I love doing as a chiropractor is not only am I looking at,
Integrity of the,
The integrity of the foot we're doing foot adjustments on people we're making sure that that,
They have good alignment in all of these joints. You know, 28 bones in the foot Ryan,
It's like if any of these is not properly aligned or moving well lack of motion I would say is more of the clinical indication than you're not gonna have good kinematics there with your stride with your running.

[30:49] Other things that come to mind. You know, I I think about even from a clinical perspective, the the anatomy train. So, not just like individual muscles like.
So as and performance and quads and that sort of thing but how are these all linked together.
Throughout the entire lower extremity and even throughout the entire body. So, you'll see a lot of deep front line tension. You'll see a lot of spiral line tension. You'll see a lot of.
Lateral line tension with a lot of that iliotibial band syndrome that can creep up into the low back like by far you know my favorite thing to do is to,
Adjust the spine get really good motion going in those facet joints which we talked about earlier those facet joints,
To make sure that we got good rotation because one thing that does come to mind now that you bring it up.

[31:35] Is that and and Danny Dry will talk about this and she running.
He'll say that yes you know you do get hip extension.
Okay in the pelvis but that's not the extent like that that extension can actually translate up into the lumbars as well.
Even all the way up into the thoraco lumbar junction that T 12 L one area.
And I'm big on that as a chiropractor because so many people are locked up right here.

[32:03] Because there is actually a change in the facet plains at that junction just like there's a change in the facet plans at the junction of the cervical thoracic.
So why do I mention this because if you are locked up or if your subluxated in that junctional area.
You are not going to be I don't care how great your hip extension is,
You are not going to be able to get that extra.

[32:27] Drive forward or posterior with your hips there if you can't have good translation of that extension up into your lumbars and your TL junction,
So making sure you have good movement there and again that can be a result of a lot of that forward.
Flexed posture if you're a desk jockey working from home all day at the computer at the desk just sitting all the time it's very easy to get locked up and subluxated right here.
So I think it is just super imperative to make sure you have good motion there so that you can get that nice push off and feel that go kinda all the way up into your.
Lower part of your mid back really. And it's just again it's gonna it's gonna be a game changer for your running, for your gate, for your stride,
It's gonna feel so much more effective and really makes a lot of all the strength all of the exercises and the rehab things that you're doing with,
People even much more effective as well. Absolutely. Yeah and one thing I wanna reiterate for people. I hear it. I hope you're hearing it as well.
Is

[33:26] Dr. Kyle, myself, we approach this. This is the human form is a movement system. It's not one joint that all works together from the ankle, foot, all the way up through the spine,
If something is not working correctly it can inhibit your movement or if you're not moving properly it can result in injuries either above or below within the kinematic chain.

[33:47] So if you're working with a professional who's hyper focused on one area and you've been hyper focused on one area of that part of your body let's say it's low back pain and you haven't.
Sought out what's going on on my ankle foot what's going on at my hips what's going on at my TL Junction do I have the rotation do I have the extensibility through my packs to allow myself to rotate,
How does my running connects look.
Out there. There's a lot of people out there who talk similar ways as we do in terms of,
How they view the body and this is this is something I think that's really important and start and become more prevalent with,
Yeah one joint but,
It's great to work with a professional like Doctor Kyle who who gets it like it's.
Fun to talk to. Yeah, likewise, I I feel the same way in terms of the the symbiotic nature of kinda what you guys are doing with kinesis. Just as you're talking, it makes me think of the longevity of running,
The sustainability of running, you know, if you have a running clients, running patient, and you're like, hey, I want you to not run for a few days. They're like,
Yeah wait what do you like.
So, my point with this brief comment would be, you know, runners want to run for years, you know, for the next 5 years, 10 years. So,
That longevity that's the same ability what we're talking about here today can really.
Cater towards that longevity that sustainability of running.

[35:10] Rather than these brief highs if you will or you know.
Periods of interest in your life where you're like, yeah, this is super cool. This is great. I I kinda have that runners kind of bent right now. Mm hmm. And then because it is such a repetitive motion end up getting injured,
Which it's probably I don't have the stats on this but it's probably one of the.

[35:30] Activities or sports that just has the highest rates of injury because it is such a repetitive thing. What we're talking about is trying to not only recover from injury but prevent injury from happening.
So again,
No include check for her breakfast doesn't like the whole personal trainer thing
Prefers not to go by that is because the profession has been cheapened by.
A lot of no funds to you Instagram stars,
May a lot of Instagram stars who have weekend certification and not really AA sound.

[36:17] Foundational understanding of kinesiology and human movement. It's a lot more than just trying to build muscles for a body building competition. It's trying to.
Enhance the quality of life for people by enhancing how they move. So,
Is Doctor Kyle's talking about running for life that's something we try to do with our clients. We want them to be able to do the things they enjoy doing and which is for most of them is running.
Over the course of their life not just for a couple of years of yeah this time where they really wanna be into and then they get hurt
Can't do it anymore. Yeah. So, great book that comes to mind by the way you talk about running for your life. Doctor Mark has a,
Book called Run For Your Life. Yup. Great books. I highly recommend that. Tell us more about Mackenzie extension
Ryan and how you utilize that in your practice,
Yeah so Mackenzie extension is typically something I use with a cute onset back pain especially if they're coming in and they have some recent onset ridiculous stuff.
So for those of you who are not familiar with it I'm Mackenzie extension.

[37:17] It was actually formed by a guy last name Mackenzie who accidentally put a patient in the wrong position he had,
Are you familiar with that? I don't think I've heard the story. No. Okay, so here we go. Yeah, it's really interesting. So, the old school of thought used to be flexion, flexion, flexion, meaning, if we're looking at the spine, right,
We have our patient laying on their back, flexion would be like curling up, extension if they're laying on their stomach, we'll be bending back. The old school of thought was.
Flexion exercises over and over and over again if we have a patient with low back pain. So,
He asked the patient to lie on the table.
Assuming they would lie on their back not telling them which way to lie. He had the table already propped into an extension position. Okay. So he walks out of the room. He comes back in. The patient's,
Laying there.

[38:13] It started this process of trying to figure out what happened, why happened? So, again, when people come into the clinic,
There's a few different ways you can go about it. I am not MDT certified or certified in Mackenzie. So, it is something I dabble in and use,
I will typically start with something like AA prom press up and the ideas to basically be able to,
And it's just a real simple press almost like a cobra if you're familiar with yoga,
Or if you're really bad at push ups and you can't get your belly off the floor when you do it,
Push up and we kinda push up into that range just until there's a little bit of discomfort.

[38:53] Always make sure there's no ridiculous symptoms going down the leg what we're looking for is a phenomenon called centralization meaning.
Symptoms are going to where the origin is versus
Peripheralization as I go down the leg that's yeah that's something we don't want and use a chiropractor I'm sure creamy at
Yeah so that's super simple super easy for people to do at home. Yeah. Like you said just kinda that almost like that cobra. Mm hmm. I use Mackenzie extension just for everyday spinal discogenic spinalosis. Discogenics
Just disc problems really. Yeah. Anything disrelated. Whether be a herniation or everything related to the disc is Mackenzie extension is just great for that.
Yeah I just almost tell people or have you heard of the posture does that ever yeah
So like a Sphing's posture where you know you're almost kinda like on your elbows coming up into that Egyptians thinks pose there if you will for just some great mackenzie extension there simple stuff like that you talk about taking your shoes off just going for a walk another simple easy drill.
Things like that are just.

[40:08] Not near a transmitter's proprioceptors in the feast. I know what you meant. Yeah. Such a density of proprioceptors in the feats. So this kinda you know to drop more shop talk on you guys.
If you've seen the harmonious if you've seen that visual diagram of your brain relative to the density of sensory receptors in your hands and feet.
Your foot is one of the highest places that you have here and just going for that barefoot walk can be such a retraining thing for your gate for your stride I believe it's Doctor Mark who talks about this,
He says run in a way let's say your kid chases their ball out in the street and and you see a car coming and you wanna go catch catch your child before they get hit by the car he says,
And you've got your shoes off your barefoot, okay? He says, run in away.
And prevent them from being hit by the car well I can tell you right now you're not gonna be heelstriking no if your barefoot.
And you're you're not gonna be you know slamming your heel into your ground and and overstriding a finger like that because you you're you will be forced.
To have a more natural stride shorter stride and you'll be more on your toes and ball of your foot yeah especially for.
Aggressive and purposeful. Yes. Yeah. Absolutely.

[41:20] Music.

[41:54] So kinda building off the the self-help techniques the McKenzie stuff.

[41:59] Another thing I know I typically give people to do cuz a lot of runners if they're running longer distances.
Not as fast they tend to lack hip range emotions as we talk about hip extension hip flexion.
So, something I almost always give runners when they come in with some low back pain is some hip mobility exercises cuz if your hips don't move,
Your back's gonna have to move excessively, okay? Again, we talk about movement systems and how they're they're interdependent. I want another. So,
If you have to bend over or squat down to get something off the floor and your hips don't have enough ability to do that.
You're still gonna get down to the floor and it's just gonna come from somewhere else whether it's your knees or your back it's typically one of the segments immediately above or below so.
That's something else we we talk about for those of you who are familiar with it. Pigeon pose. I like a lot for yoga. Lizard like a lizard pose. Okay. There's some other ones that we've kinda created and developed. One that we stole,
From the pasta restorations will be called four point post your hip stretch. Yeah. So, it's very similar to a pigeon but in stropping back.

[43:03] We actually keep the femur vertical.
And the knee is oriented directly under the mid line of the body. So, it's almost like you use gravity. Yeah.
And the pressure on the femur as a posterior
Force through the poster capsule to hip so it creates essentially a protraction of the pelvis on one side so you can add duction of the femur. Mm hmm. And it works really really well in terms of getting the the post to your glute fibers to to loosen up for.

[43:32] People who have a hard time talked about the importance of the rotation to the raccoon lumbar junction for people who have a hard time with some of that.
Lumbo pelvic movement and thoraco pelvic dissociation that's that's really huge so.

[43:48] If you're having issues, those are some great places to start for self help.
You use this a lot but just even hit transfers,
Yeah. You know, people have a swivel chair. Yeah. I'll just try them like,
Think about your your knees are windshield wipers exactly your feet right where they are and you just try to you know almost like
Flossing your,
Your hip joint there. I'm I'm always trying to get better at that myself. You know, my right side is so tight. My left side's not that bad but yeah, just a simple things like that and then that translates into improvement of quality of life, like in other areas, not just running. Just
Everyday movements whether you're bending down to get something out of the refrigerator or you're trying to pick up your kid or whatever it might be you get just systemic life benefit from.
Having better hip mobility, hip flexibility with that. So, great point. To your question about kinda what else plays into this? Yeah, we talk about inflammation here. Yeah, I mean, if you've got just systemic.
Gut problems if you're not sleeping well if you're downing you know five six cups of coffee just to feel like you can get by.
Man, I'm not even sure if running is the best place to start. I would say you've gotta really address,
You know it might or candle function you've gotta address gut inflammation we talked about earlier how once you.

[45:13] Put the pieces of the of the kinematic and vial mechanical chains together and and this running thing really clicks for you,
Mentally at least.
You can get to a point where like just.
How's my nutrition,
I support that in in in principal you know I want people to be more less sedentary and and moving more however don't think that you can just.

[45:56] Yeah in a in a healthy way start going out and running half marathons and marathons of these long distances right away.

[46:03] I think taking some time acclimating well working with people like Ryan and Kayleen and just really dialing in the movement patterns first.
Is a much more efficient, effective, and sustainable way than just trying to,
Go at it and potentially injure yourself in the process especially if you're you know pounding the treadmill all the time you know one note on treadmills I I just wanna mention Ryan as well you've probably seen a lot of these things some of these treadmills actually can go,
Into a decline. Yeah. For people. Yeah. And then you got these super cool new treadmills that are actually curved. Yeah. So, then you can like, you know, the true form runners and stuff like that,
Where you can really drill. Now, this is for all you advanced people out there for, you know, people that want all the gear, right,
So you can get treadmills and trainers like that or if running outside is too cold or if it's hard, you know, part of the weather or season or year therefore, yeah, things like that can be really,
Really effective for you. One thing I love to tell us more about cross training like so I hear you talk about like, okay, yeah, I wanna get in more into running. I wanna get better,
But I've heard you say things like, okay, well, what else are you doing? You know, how you only running or what else should do you think people should be doing,
To compliment the the running. Absolutely, yeah. So, we've sent a lot through this conversation that running is obviously a very repetitive motion. So, there's certain muscles that.
Tend to get hypertrophy for that reason and if all we're doing is running straight forward in a line for miles and miles and thousands and thousands of steps.

[47:32] We tenders get the end result of muscular imbalances. Meaning, the shirt muscles that get overuse and other ones that get under used. For example, one area I see is a problem is the tensor, fascia latta. TFL. Yeah.

[47:46] It is a very important muscle. However, in the running cycle, it's working too out of the three phases. So, in stance or when you're in support, it is functioning as a pelvic stabilizer to prevent,
Add duction cuz it's a hip abductor,
It is also a hip flexor so as you're pulling your leg off the ground it's working to flex the hip the only time that leg is not working is as your foot is descending towards the ground so these muscles,
Become very dominant. So, we talk about TFL, that muscle feeds in your IT band,
And if that muscle becomes overly dominant compared to like your glute need, your glute max external rotation fibers we mentioned before.
That's where you start to see some issues with IT band syndrome. You can see FAI so femoral acetablar impingement happening at the hip.
Just because we don't have a proper balance.
Is really to do other activities that are complimentary to help support your running. So, when people come into our facility that's doing exercises, specifically for,
The external rotation to abduction fibers of the glute max the glute mean it's doing exercises like immediate stuff,
Down or a controlled single leg squat so that we're good with lumbo pelvic stability and actually using the curve,
Fibers.

[49:04] Posture. So that when you go out and you run, you can do this without injuring yourself. I also encourage people to find other activities that they enjoy doing whether it's playing tennis or going for a hike, riding a boat.

[49:16] Something that just engages the body.
Exercises like diet running is running is a great thing but at too much of a good thing can be a bad thing too so like broccoli's good.

[49:33] Chickens good but if all you ate was chicken and broccoli had nothing else you'd be very deficient of a lot of the nutrients you need so I think it's important that.
In terms of you have a wide variety of movements cuz the body was designed to do a whole host of things but in our modern westernized world.
We don't do as many things with it as we used to. So, yeah, a second that, yeah.

[50:01] I would love to plug kettlebells. A lot of people know I'm a huge kettlebell fan. Even Dr. Dr. Mark, we'll talk about this. It doesn't have to be heavy kettlebells.
Really force your brain and your body to integrate a lot of the the chains or or the fascia planes. Yeah. In a very specific way that you don't quite get you know crack me if I'm wrong about this Ryan but I would I would argue you don't quite get that kind of integration,
Just with like dumbbells or other you know.
Standard linear exercises there is something about the kettlebell that I think is a little unique and very conducive to running
In the sense that when you go and if you do a little bit of work with kettlebells I'm not talking about heavy complicated stuff just very simple stuff whether it be just a simple deadlift.
Or some overhead presses or some simple swings, you know, to work on your hip hinge, things like that.

[50:52] And then you go back to your running you know I think there's a compliment too there with running be running being very aerobic.
And being very you know just body weight and then you add a little bit of weight with the kettlebell so now you have that more strength training aspect you know you're you're challenging your brain a different way you're
Trying to add a little bit of resistance there. That can really be a nice compliment to each other with that. So, yeah, but going back to the tense or fascia, latza,
With it being this time of year can I get my,
Pumpkin spice latte with that as well.
I couldn't resist. So, Ryan, thanks so much for coming on the platform today.

[51:33] You know, we talked a lot about how we can help runners here, the everyday runner, the advanced athlete, and everything. I just wanna really recommend your services and everything with Kayleen's doing,
You know Ryan is looking for people who need some corrective exercises to help address an ongoing issue or injury,
If you're that kind of person, definitely contact Ryan here. We'll get his.

[51:56] Contact information here and how you can reach out to him. Kayleen's looking for someone who is not presently in pain or ha or have an active injury but wants to be proactive about their health,
And improve or support their running abilities,
Through program exercises key key term there.
So Ryan how can people contact you and Kayleen and get plugged in over there at kinesis.

[52:18] I honestly think the best way we can make this work is if we throw some sort of link below this or something on it so that they can get to the website once you get there for new people I love to hop on the phone with them and have a conversation about,
What they're looking for what they need if they have fact pain have they seen a physician just to make sure that,
We're a good fit. Do i feel like i can help you? That's pretty much where we go. From there, it's deciding whether or not we need to schedule an evaluation. Like we said, with Kayleen,
If you're just somebody who's looking to be more proactive it's scheduling a movement assessment or a fitness consultation with her at the free service and.
She takes you through essentially what we do here at Kinesis and takes a look at what areas you can improve on and kinda works towards their goals with.

[53:06] Thank you again for having me. Yeah, not a problem. Great talking to you. Yeah, here today. Absolutely. Guys, check out kinesis. What's your website.

[53:13] Can you say PT and performance. Com brilliant brilliant.
Anyone looking for spinal chiropractic adjustments.

[53:22] Really good muscular skeletal support with their running and with that we'll talk to you guys soon. We'll talk to you next time,
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